r1ch.net forums
* Home Help Search Login Register
r1ch.net  |  r1ch.net stuff  |  Anticheat  |  Topic: picking up correct model
Pages: [1] 2  All
Print
Author Topic: picking up correct model  (Read 20651 times)
wision
Member

Posts: 237



« on: May 06, 2007, 07:08:56 am »

would it be possible to make client use other model if check of current one failed? some server for examle checks for original explosion model.. but i use those small explosions in my pak so my check failed in 1 file.. but i have original model of explosions in pak0.pak.. would it be possible to make r1q2 to use that model from pak0.pak instead of my custom model and don't fail the check?
Logged
Lemonzest
Member

Posts: 188



« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 08:24:10 am »

Not possible, pak's loaded last over right the file list dir of previous pak's
Logged
wision
Member

Posts: 237



« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 08:34:07 am »

hmm.. that doesn't mean that client can't be changed to load all models and just pick correct one Wink
Logged
QwazyWabbit
Member

Posts: 402


« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 11:24:22 am »

PAK files of higher numbers override lower numbered ones. This is part of the original design. Items of the same name inside paks replace the previously loaded ones. There is no way to identify "the correct one" since the first is lost. The only way to eliminate this conflict is to remove the incorrect one from the PAK that contains it. If the PAK is a novelty pak or for another mod, then you should set it aside or place it in the mod folder where it belongs. This will prevent conflict with registered anti-cheat files.

This arises because the Quake2 "file system" regards paks as directories and loads them as though they were directory trees from the OS, replacement of files in this system is automatic. Once loaded, it doesn't go back. The purpose was to allow mods to override entities from the original game without having to delete or modify the original distribution paks. Your mod pak0.pak will override the original everywhere there is an identical file name. The newly loaded entity has a different fingerprint from the "approved" entity per the anti-cheat configuration of the server you are joining.
Logged
wision
Member

Posts: 237



« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 11:49:41 am »

i know how it works... but that q2 "file system" can be changed and that's why i'm asking...
Logged
R1CH
Administrator
Member

Posts: 2625



« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 05:18:01 pm »

It's technically possible, but it would involve quite a lot of work to support it in each anticheat client properly. I have been thinking about doing something along these lines already, but simply haven't had the time.
Logged
wision
Member

Posts: 237



« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 02:31:56 am »

i thought that it's only client side thing and it wouldn't affect anticheat at all.. (that's also why i posted it on r1q2 forum), but now i see that anticheat would be required to send hashes to client and that's not how it works right now probably.. anyway thanks for the answer
Logged
Bossman
Member

Posts: 486


« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 02:48:51 am »

That's one of them non anticheat things as far as anticheat is.... If something is considered a cheat then it should be a cheat period for always not just on some servers. The way this is going the admins decide what a cheat is as far as this stuff.  Anticheat should focus on cheats, hacks and things like that not the things that one server allows and another don't. They should be just server settings and the anticheat should not put its attention on them things. This is going along the same lines that all the other anticheats did. In this case if you have something in a pak that is a cheat or considered a cheat by whomever then it should be that in all servers if it is indeed a cheat. The point for instance something that is OK in your server like small explosion model but is not allowed in some other servers cause its a cheat in them. So how then is this a cheat at all if its allowed on some servers? The anticheat should never interfear with it eather way then. If some admins don't want it, and others do then they, and them alone should deal with it, not the anticheat server. Anticheat should be going after cheaters not things like that.... Leave that to the admins.  Like the hash files the anticheat should only get all the hash files of all servers and let them go for all servers not just the ones that want them if there OK then they should be set up to be OK for all. Because if its not cheating in one server then its not a cheat so it should be OK for all as far as the anticheat goes. Anticheat server should just have a main hash list of none cheats that are allowed for all servers of stuff to allow. We seem never to get a anticheat that the main focus is on cheats and not things that some say is OK and others say is not. That is the admins deciding what a cheat is now. If I am wrong about that then please explain to me why something is a cheat in (example)D, C, and V servers and its not a cheat in X,  Y, and Z servers?Huh Because the new cheat detectors are the admins which over load the anticheat server with BS to check for on there server because they don't like it, not cause its a cheat. A cheat is someone using something that is a unfair advantage not something that anyone and everone has or can get that they can use freely everwhere else too. Everyone, not just a lot of players, but everone....Cause if everone has it then everone is still at same advantage. Now don't go there and say well what if we just give cheats to everone.. Because they are not there for all to get for one thing are they?... And even if they are there cheats and they can't use them if the Anticheat server is doing what its supposed to do. Instead of checking to see if a explosion model is OK because its small in one server and normal in another, or OK in one server but not in other. It should not even bother messing with it unless its a cheat. Well I hope you understand what I mean and don't just want to argue about it. Just fix it to do what its name says it is. Anticheat not antistuff
Logged
R1CH
Administrator
Member

Posts: 2625



« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 02:58:42 am »

Admins decide the rules for their own server, one admin might agree that small / hidden explosions are OK, one might think they are cheats. It also varies by mod, fullbright skins might be accepted in CTF, but on Gloom or Nighthunters where darkness is a part of the mod, they would probably be banned. It's not my decision to decide what is legit and what is not for everyones server, hence why this control is passed on to the individual server admins.
Logged
Snake
Member

Posts: 184


« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 02:26:39 pm »

Bossman, maybe I didn't understand correctly what you meant, but IMHO, if you got your wish, every quake 2 server for a certain mod on the internet would be the same... They would have to be because the allowed list of files would necessarily be a very, very short list (to satisfy the server admins that wish a pure q2 only server).

I know for a fact that many q2 players would quit the game if they were no longer allowed to use their custom paks on any server. Maybe that's not true for your players, your server or your mod, but it certainly is for ours, and for some other admins' servers.



Logged
Bossman
Member

Posts: 486


« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 04:54:31 pm »

  That is what I said R1CH anticheat is anticheat rules are rules they are not the same thing. I don't wish Quake2 to be same on ever server  I just think anticheat detection should be same on ever server the mod is the only thing differant... Skins maps and such are the admins rules its not the anticheats responseability to enforce rules. It is supposed to detect cheats not enforce stuff. A cheat is something that would apply to all servers. Rules apply to each server by its self, so why should anticheat be enforcing rules? Don't even try to convince me there the same cause everone knows there not. Personal reasons is not a answer eather.

 Mods are ran by admins I don't wish for nothing but letting players play, if they need a bright skin cause they can't see well then why should we stop them?  There is reasons for stuff like that so to me and maybe a few others if you want players, then let them play with the things made for the game to help the ones who need that help and by help (for those of you who would like to focus on this point) I don't mean let them use hacks,and bots or cheats. You may think bright skins for instance is cheating because you don't have a problem seeing but some may need it to help them see in the game, Just because the ones who do see well might use it to there advantage is not reason to ban it from the ones who do need stuff like that. If its cheating for sure then ban it, if its something that may help ones who otherwise can't play then leave it in. But you do what you want with your servers anyway cause you are the law there, but still you should look the pros and cons of stuff before you say its a cheat. In any case though I thought anticheat would apply to all servers as far as cheating went, not as far as what admins rules were for said server. That is what I mean ok.

  Oh by the rules checking I mean it should be in server configs not in tha anticheat detecting, That is where rules of server should be inforced.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 04:59:05 pm by Bossman » Logged
Snake
Member

Posts: 184


« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 06:24:27 pm »

letting players play, if they need a bright skin cause they can't see well then why should we stop them?

be-cau-se cuz ... it .. breaks .. mods .. that .. re-ly ... on ... dark-ness

Skins maps and such are the admins rules its not the anticheats responseability to enforce rules.

And how do you propose server admins enforce them, without anticheat?

Oh by the rules checking I mean it should be in server configs not in tha anticheat detecting, That is where rules of server should be inforced.

Ah ok. How do you suggest we check for bright skins or loud footsteps using server configs? Make the player answer a question: "do you use bright skins (y/n)"?

You may think bright skins for instance is cheating because you don't have a problem seeing but some may need it to help them see in the game

That is exactly the argument some player made to me. He should be allowed to use a model that was 4 times the size of normal players/male and showed up through walls, because his eyesight was bad and he didn't like to wear his glasses. What's next, allow players with parkinson's to use a bot because they can't aim otherwise?
Logged
WORM.
Member

Posts: 71


« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2007, 10:30:13 am »

It appears Bossman does not enable anticheat on his servers and therefore has a very limited understanding of how it works so I'll do my best to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. rolleyes

Anticheat does as you say in stopping blatant cheats, hacks, etc. It does not decide what skins are allowed on any server but it does enable server admins to determine what is or is not allowed and use anticheat to enforce their decisions. Each individual server determines what else is enforced or not enforced.

Some of us have put a lot of work into configuring our servers the way we feel is appropriate for the mods we run. We don't force our configurations on any other server and we do cooperate with each other in reviewing and sharing our configurations. Snake, myself and other admins have put a lot of work into this and it is on-going.

We also are very open to adding validation of files to our configurations that players want to use, all they have to do is send us the file for our review. The majority of those files have been found to be acceptable for our mods while some have been disallowed...the bottom line is the players have been involved in the process and the vast majority understand and support the efforts put forth by R1CH and us to maintain a level playing field.

I don't mean for this to be disrespectful but maybe if you did a little research before posting you might not exhibit such ignorance of anticheat.
Logged
Kurgan Dent
Guest
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2007, 03:29:35 am »

I think, that a possible solution to the problem could be found not in changing anticheat, but r1q2 in general - an option like sv_pure 0/1 like in Quake 3 could do the trick. If a server has it enabled, than all clients connecting to that serwer would only load original pakfiles. I'm not sure how could it be solved with Quake 2 though.
Logged
R1CH
Administrator
Member

Posts: 2625



« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2007, 05:58:31 am »

The whole idea behind sv_pure was that since Q3 was closed source, it was hard(er) to bypass. Since Q2 and Q3 are now open source, there is little to no chance that a client would respect any sv_pure setting by the server as without some way of authenticating the client, the server has no idea what the client even is.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
Print
r1ch.net  |  r1ch.net stuff  |  Anticheat  |  Topic: picking up correct model
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines